Curse

Snorph · Nov 26, 2008, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Anyone else notice this with any other guilds, or other guild notice this?

I have a guild that's 2 years old. We have been having problems keeping people. They seem to join and then quit. I thought at first it was due to the low member count. But then I recruited alot of people and the samething.

None seem to want to pvp, pve or gvg. They all seem want to solo and not really want to play along with the guild. Is it me or is the guildwars community hard to find good dedicated players?

Seems that some do not want to be dedicated nor help.

Just wondering if I am the only one.

A11Eur0 · Nov 26, 2008, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Guild wars for the most part has become a solo game. There are very few players that have intimate knowledge of most aspects of the game and actually choose to play through the story with less knowledgeable players. As for PvP, you should join a dedicated PvP guild, because it takes a core group of people not in a dedicated PvP guild to foray into GvG's and not get discouraged because they got rolled by those more coordinated and/or experienced. I joined a guild that did GvG on a regular basis, and it didn't help me get into PvP, because I felt like I was still one player playing alongside 7 other players doing their own thing. There was little communication. The only GvG's they won were Iway bunny thumping teams, as far as I could see. It was just ridiculous. The guild I'm in now does faction farming. The only vanquishing they do is in kurzick areas for faction. And never the ones I need. (Eternal grove is my last kurzick area). So, I never have much to do with this guild. Sometimes the alliance does Urgoz, but they take anyone that shows up and two monks. I mean, I enjoy just playing but I don't enjoy wiping at the first mob because nobody knows how to tank and heal properly.

sorry for my rant...I'm becoming rather disillusioned with guilds lately and the only fun I have now is farming for event items. I have no idea what I'll do after wintersday is over.

I do help though when something comes up when I'm not busy, but half the time the person I'm helping is just too damn nooby, and when I offer advice they're like "well this works so w/e"....I'm just about done teaching people how to fish, and I'm not going to spoonfeed them otherwise.

pumpkin pie · Nov 26, 2008, 04:59 AM // 04:59

i'm in my third guild, first one was like yours people coming and going like the grand hotel!

second one was better but they don't talk to you so i don't know why in the first place did they recruit me ... lol that's why i am in my

third guild
which I don't think i will leave unless they decided to kick me.

every one is friendly, lots of outings (as in from alliances and guild), almost everyone greet everyone else as soon as they log on, most time they will ask what is everyone doing, and tells you what they are planning for that day and everyone is welcome. all profession. all you need to do is ask. or watch out for the Alliance Chat and jump in.

second day, if not mistaken, that the new book system is out, we've already completed our first book and handed it in.

oh and also farming secrets and spots and build!

best guild ever.

Pleikki · Nov 26, 2008, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snorph

Is it me or is the guildwars community hard to find good dedicated players?

Its hard to build up Dedicated guild, atleast alone, its easyer start when you got few friends that willing to help you, and you got goals, for example top 100 GvG, Doing Urgoz in balanced less then 30mins, owning Hzh/cavalon orso. it helps you get motivation for it, and then you can rescuit ppl who got same goals.

wind fire and ice · Nov 26, 2008, 05:32 AM // 05:32

most good guilds have a dedicated 10 or less members,the other 90 spots are usually for people who rarely play/random join+leavers.

if you have 10 dedicated members you are in a good guild.

Daft Shifty · Nov 26, 2008, 06:13 AM // 06:13

What wind said.. basicallly you can only ever expect to have around 10 or so players active 90% of the time. As awesome as it would be to have 100 people on at a time.. but then it would like impossible for you find a group with the core

Onion Guy · Nov 26, 2008, 08:05 AM // 08:05

I'm in my second guild and have been for over two years. I see a lot of people join and leave every day. Up to 20 a day. the leader and officers are dedicated though and keep the population up over 90 almost all the time. After a while i noticed that there is a group of about 20 players that have been in the guild just as long as i have. about 40 of them come on at least once a week. I think if you want a successful guild you have ho have enough people that you have been around long enough that they want to all be together and after a while more people will see how fun it can be to get to know others and help out and will stay.
The biggest thing i see have an influence is how much guild chat there is and what type it is. If there are a lot of people just talking and having fun, offering to help or requesting help, new people will feel more comfortable and the guild is actualy ther for something.

Snorph · Nov 26, 2008, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Ya, i really dont want to have 90+ members. Just a solid guild with say 10 - 20 that are active. People tend to join my guild and same day just leave. We have rules and reqs of course i am up front before hand. But seems to do no good. They still join and then quit.

Shasgaliel · Nov 26, 2008, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snorph

People tend to join my guild and same day just leave. We have rules and reqs of course i am up front before hand. But seems to do no good. They still join and then quit.

I noticed this as well. Usually people join ask for help/item and then leave. I noticed really a lot of people joining guilds just to get some stuff and not for a teamplay.

@OP indeed it was not like this before. Hard to find the reasons though.

maraxusofk · Nov 26, 2008, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snorph

None seem to want to pvp, pve or gvg. They all seem want to solo and not really want to play along with the guild. Is it me or is the guildwars community hard to find good dedicated players?

Seems that some do not want to be dedicated nor help.

Just wondering if I am the only one.

heroes did this

Rak Orgon of Beowulf · Nov 26, 2008, 09:37 AM // 09:37

I've also been in 2 guilds

1st- Brother in Laws guild who introduced me to the game, abour 10 total members, moostly family, ended up kinda lame.

2nd_ Created my own guild, got about 20 members and a few NPCs in Hall, got to be to much with school, and none of the noobs ever played anyway.

Sold my guild for like 10K ish, way less then i got NPC's for, oh well

3rd guild- Found a PvE kurz alliance that does AB, but isnt like "you must turn in 10k faction a day, so we can keep/buy our town." Its fun, lively discussions, few Dungeonsm asking for help, giving help.

Its all about what you and your alliance put into it.

upier · Nov 26, 2008, 10:47 AM // 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by maraxusofk

heroes did this

People did that.
You want the insane power that a human controlled character brings?
You need to deal with the idiot controlling that character.
EDIT:
Got carried away a bit there.
It's not just the other people that were the issue - it's also the evolution of PvE itself. The place is to big to support multiplayer as a primary playstyle.

On-topic:
There is a difference between being dedicated and wanting to play with others.
I get my GW socializing kick by chatting with people. I don't need to PLAY with them also.

Red Sonya · Nov 26, 2008, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snorph

Anyone else notice this with any other guilds, or other guild notice this?

I have a guild that's 2 years old. We have been having problems keeping people. They seem to join and then quit. I thought at first it was due to the low member count. But then I recruited alot of people and the samething.

None seem to want to pvp, pve or gvg. They all seem want to solo and not really want to play along with the guild. Is it me or is the guildwars community hard to find good dedicated players?

Seems that some do not want to be dedicated nor help.

Just wondering if I am the only one.

Open your mind and think about your question(s) for a moment. We live in a world with enough rules and regulations therefore when we play a game we have more CHOICES of what we want or wish to do. No one can become a dictator in a game or control anyones actions (at least not for very long). Many players that join guilds are just joining to see the guild activity and trying to get into one that meets or exceeds THEIR goals. I joined and left 17 guilds so far. I just haven't found the one that I like or does or wants to do what "I" want to do. You must remember first and foremost in any NORMAL persons mind is "ME", "MYSELF" and "I"....then I'll think about you.

the_jos · Nov 26, 2008, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Haven't seen this in a long time. Our guild didn't recruit active for a long time now and we are still getting request from old guildies if they can come back.

If I ask in GC who wants to team I might get a few members with me, or not.
Everyone who has been with our guild knows and understands that. Some officers became frustrated because scheduled events didn't occur because no players wanted to join. That's our guild, one time you have 8 or more players for an event, the other time you are alone. If you don't want that, bye!

I think many players don't understand that a guild is made by all players.
Many want something from the guild instead of offering something to the guild.
And it's not that you should help others achieve their goals and not achieving your own.
It's about teaming up together once in a while or chatting about stupid things.
If your goal is doing Eternal Grove today, don't expect any help. You are on your own because it's your goal. But if you ask in GC if someone wants to join you might get a positive reply. Because someone might be up for some fun/challenge. Or might need it, but can't join today, but will be able next week.

In the end, it's all in recruiting and setting expectations.
That's the reason that we stopped recruiting. Too many players who have high expectations that we can't meet. Not because we are bad, but because many players expectations are not realistic.

tasha · Nov 26, 2008, 12:58 PM // 12:58

I agree in part with Red Sonya's sentiments above. Having been Guild Leader of the same Guild for over 2 years (with a 2 month break when RL demanded attention), I've noticed a marked difference in the last few months.

People play Guild Wars (mostly) in their spare time. That means that their enjoyment is paramount to themselves, so they will be motivated by what increases their enjoyment. For many that means staying away from others - you have to work with that other person after all, and with the bad experiences of many PUGs people just don't want the hassle of teaming up. One of the tricks as a Guild Leader or Officer is to bring together people who enjoy similar things and giving them as many opportunities as possible to team up.

As for people joining and leaving - consider why they do this and maybe change your recruitment strategy accordingly. Consider also what you class as a good player - one who is technically good at the game, good at motivating others, good at helping you run the guild etc. There are always those that cape leech - not everyone has the time or drive to "help out", but even those that just talk on Guild Chat contribute in their own way and may be all they want from a Guild.

A final issue is one that upier touched on - people's playing styles are changing. As people finish up their goals they're stopping playing the same content they've played 20 times before in PvE and spending their game time elsewhere, or as I've noticed playing shorter hours. 1/2 of MYST log on every day just as they did this time last year, but instead of seeing 20 or so people logged in at the same time, we're now seeing 10 or so, just because there's less to do. As a result we've moved to using our forum and IRC to get people online to do stuff in an attempt to coordinate efforts.

Stolen Souls · Nov 26, 2008, 01:15 PM // 13:15

People join guilds for their own reasons, and with their OWN expectations in mind. If they don't like what they see, they will naturally leave (though some don't really give it much of a chance). For example, if you have a huge list of rules, new recruits are likely to just say "screw this, I'm going somewhere else". I've seen it in my old guild, as well. I agree with the person that said every guild has a dedicated 10 or less members. A few people that are always on, and always remain in the guild. The rest are randoms that you can expect to leave suddenly at any time for any reason.

I agree that the amount of guild-hoppers has gone through the roof lately. In my old guild, I'd say 8 out of 10 new recuits left within 24 hours. MOST of the time I could predict when the person was a "leaver", too. 1. They say nothing. They don't socialize at all, except maybe a "hello" the first time they are welcomed. 2. They ask for stuff.

I don't really understand why the number of leavers/hoppers seems to be going up. Maybe people are expecting more from a guild these days, and most guilds can't meet those expectations? *shrug*

Pleikki · Nov 26, 2008, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stolen Souls

For example, if you have a huge list of rules, new recruits are likely to just say "screw this, I'm going somewhere else".

Thats why you should tell rules before you let em in, ask em that they understand it etc. and only then let em in.. You can rescuit only from website, no rescuiting ingame. that way you get only few newbies

Stolen Souls · Nov 26, 2008, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleikki

Thats why you should tell rules before you let em in, ask em that they understand it etc. and only then let em in.. You can rescuit only from website, no rescuiting ingame. that way you get only few newbies

Yes, you're right. You can do that. But the "list of rules" thing was just one example. New recruits will leave for any number of reasons. They don't like one or some of the members...they'll leave. They don't like the leader...they'll leave. The guild doesn't do the things the recruit expected them to do...they'll leave. They just don't feel like they "fit in"...they'll leave. I've heard that one MANY times when I would ask why a member left..."Eh, I just felt like I didn't fit in" (though staying for a day, and not saying a word doesn't really seem like much effort to "fit in" on their part). Lately it seems like people find it easier to just leave and move on to another guild, than to try to make things work in their current one...resulting in a continuous flow of joiners/leavers.

AngelWJedi · Nov 26, 2008, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

I noticed this as well. Usually people join ask for help/item and then leave. I noticed really a lot of people joining guilds just to get some stuff and not for a teamplay.

@OP indeed it was not like this before. Hard to find the reasons though.

yeah that happens alot in my guild. someone recruits says 8 people. 3 want stuff,what you're not going to give me free stuff then bamb they're gone. 3 more if you dont drop what you're doing and bow to their whims then bamb they leave too. one usually joins says some rude,childish or something of mean then laughs and leaves. and the last one stays and actually becomes a nice new friend to play with it. sadly its hard to find nice members that want to join and are active for more then a week or more.

isamu kurosawa · Nov 26, 2008, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Change the way you recruit.

Recruiting in towns or just letting anybody in will leave you with all the guild hoppers, freebe hoarders and general idiots who get kicked from other guilds for being immature.

Create a clear plan of what kind of member you want with criteris such as:

Age requirement
Preffered play type (pvp, pve or more detailed with gvg, vanqs etc)
Playstyle
PlayTimes/timezone
Language
Professions
Acheivements
Personality - This is the most important. you want a guild to be full of people with complimenting personalities
Tech requirements (do you want them to have vent etc)
Personal Statement (let them give info about themselves
Sell yourself section (leave a section dedicated to letting the potential member give reasons why your guild should accept them)
Referee (do they have a current guild member who can vow for them)
Supporting evidence (have them post links to their profile on guru for example. Then you can get a feel of their beliefs and playstyle by reading what they had to say in discussions)
Anything else you can think of.

Once you have it all planned out you can create an application form. Then you must decide who gets a say on new members and what weight their decision has (leader, officers, members etc)

If somebody cannot be arsed to fill in such an application form to join your guild, They are not worth it.

Once you have your applicationm form sorted out to filter potential members you can move on to improving the guilds yourself.

Do you have a forum/guild website? If not, get one, get one now. There are many options rangingfrom free hosted pre-built systems to private hosted software platforms such as phpbb3 that you manually set up yourself.
Forums are a great way to not only advertise your guild and to have a place for your application form but also to help your community grow outside the game, to share information between members, post events and to store any guild rules.

Guild rules
are another important aspect, every guild should have rules. No matter how strict or relaxed they are guidelines prevent a guild from drifting away from the origional members ideals. This prevents drama and other things that tend to kill off guilds slowly.

Events
Pre-arranged events are a great way to keep a guild active. Plan them out taking your guilds playtimes and current goals into consideration. Events can be anything. Decide who you will allow to host events. (leader, officers, members etc)

Officers
Do not choose someone to be an officer just because they are your friend or because you recruited them early on.
Being an officer is not a privilage, the real guild are your members and without them your guild is dead. Officers are there to support members by giving advice, helping out, hosting events and stopping any disputes before they cause too much trouble. Officers should be mature, calm and polite. People with a temper make bad officers and cause more trouble than it is worth.

There are many other things you can do but that should give you a good start.

Finally, If you are not willing to put in the above effort then being a guild leader is not for you. As with the role of officer, being the leader does not make you any better than the members, you are there to support and nurture your community for their benefit.
Many people decide to start their own guild for the wrong reasons, they never succeed.